we think it would be a big miss, a missed opportunity to sit today and watch and 30 years from now wonder why we missed out when those decisions were made in the arctic, which is so important to global advancement and economic zblemt thank you very much. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you very much, senator sheheen. those were good questions and i think an important part of the record. i appreciate it. let me just close out. senator luger does not have additional questions i have one or two quickly, but i want to get the record complete here. we'll leave the record open, incidentally, to are a week in case there are additional questions to submit in writing. mr. timmons, at a hearing before the committee a couple of weeks ago we heard from one of the think tank folks out here from the heritage foundation, analyst who said that u.s. companies are free to exploit the deep sea bed right now and they have all the legal certainty necessary to support investments to drill in the deep sea bed. the analogy drawn by that

witness is it's just like fishing. you go out and it's everyone for themselves. in light of the fact that you have 160 nations and all the parties to the convention, it seems odd to sort of suggest every person for themself approach to this. i wonder, you've addressed it somewhat here, you've talked about the certainty. i want to be crystal clear whether that's an alternative. is that viable? >> well, senator, i would -- mr. chairman, i would say it's an alternative but i don't think it's viable. we could proceed as a nation. i think it's very important to recognize that the world today is extraordinarily different than it was 40 years ago. we are, again, a global economy. we have multi-national companies that have the means to develop these resources but they simply are unwilling to do so because of the risk that exists without ratification of this treaty.

if -- if that theory were in fact accurate, you would see the development of these resources today and it's simply not happening. >> so is it -- is it -- i want to ask everybody this. therefore, is it clear, are you saying here definitively today that the people you represent and the interests that you're here to advance will not be served by -- and that no one will invest, in fact, the billions of dollars if you were to pursue that theory of every person for themself? >> i think our country would not be served if the treaty is not ratified because companies simply will not invest or take the risks if they don't have the certainty provided in this treaty. that means from a manufacturing perspective that manufacturing suffers, which means the economy suffers, which means jobs suffer. and so it's in the long term

economic and national security interests of our country in the view of manufacturers that this treaty be ratified. >> mr. donahue? >> senator, if we don't join this treaty, we may find people in doing that without the protection but they may be the russians, they may be the chinese, and they may be on our extended outer continental shelf. obviously the arctic is more available than it was before because of the thinning of the sies while it's thickening on the south pole, you know, all of this stuff going on, but people are making plans and claims to establish themselves in the arctic. and as jack indicated, we're on the outside looking in with all sorts of power, but as you know in your job, most of the most powerful things we can't do or we shouldn't do. and i think the benefits of

making this fundamental adjustment, taking a seat at the table with a lot of strength to protect our interests at least gives us a res on detre for whatever steps we have to take and represent this country. so the answer is i don't think you're going to see a lot of american firms -- you can -- you can get permission from the federal government, this is another point, to access an area, but then they won't give you a permit to drill it. and we have all of those problems, but the bottom line, we've been arguing this thing for so long and when the old arguments run out, then we have some new arguments. and i respect the people that have that view. and i suppose you could find some of my members that have that view, but not very many of them. and we've got tens and tens of thousands of them and think it's about time to get on with it.

>> yes. >> senator, i understand there's a lot of different opinions about this, but i would suggest you look closely at those opinions where it really matters. you cited one earlier, the chairman of shell, marvin otom, rex hill lot son sent you a letter. they have been very clear and unequivocal saying they will not make those decisions. the risk is too high. there's too much at stake. they won't be able to convince boards and shareholders that that's the best use and the safest use of their money and their resource. so i would hope we'd look at those that have experience, that are on the front line making those decisions and perhaps in fairness give that opinion a little more weight than others. >> and at the same time to think about what the joint chiefs of staff and our military leaders who are challenged to protect us in many ways, including in those areas, and you know they're not people easily convinced of

joining committees. >> well, final question. last question, i promise. it seems to me listening to your testimony that if companies aren't going to invest, that if we're looking at a reduction of the availability of rare earth minerals and we could be mining rare earth minerals, sounds to me that takes a lot of people to produce the equipment, be out there doing it, that if -- if we're looking at increased ability to find more energy sources for the united states, it takes people to go out and do that, and if you're talking about providing cheaper energy for the united states over the long term, that affects our economy. bottom line to everything here it seems to me is jobs. i mean, this seems to me to be screaming at us that there is this availability of jobs for americans out there if we were to do this more than anything else.

would each of you comment? i mean, is this a -- is that really what is fundamentally at stake here? mr. donahue? >> the great -- next great -- the next great industry in this country is energy of every type, and that is going to create millions of jobs over the near term. we should not make this more difficult for us to access rare earth minerals, energy, and whatever else you might find while 161 other countries are out making their plans to do so. this is in the enlightened self-interest of this country and in the interest of our national security and i respectfully say to those that disagree -- and by the way, we try to learn something from them, that the positive part of this treaty so overwhelms and

outweighs those objections which i respect that the plurality, as they would say up here, is highly significant. >> mr. gerard? >> senator, i was just going to add to that. tom mentioned something that was very significant today. the energy opportunities in the united states today are of game-changing proportions. to put it in simple context, the economist just a few months ago said within the next decade if the u.s. policy is done well, we will become the new middle east for energy production. that's how serious this discussion is. if we as a nation are serious about producing our own energy, so i think there's two dimensions to this answer. the first one is, we need to think long term. we have to look at things like the law to see and say how do we secure our energy future, not only the next 10 to 20 years, but the next 50 to 100 years. oil and natural gas will

continue to be the foundation energy building block for many decades yet to come, even as we strive to move to alternative renewable forms and other lessee mitting forms of energy. the secretary dimension we shouldn't overlook, it goes back to senator corker's point earlier, we've got to get our act together as a country in our own permitting processes, in our own political will and ability to produce our own energy. we can secure the border. we can secure the long-term future through the law of the sea, but we've got to have processes within the united states where we say energy's a priority. senator casey pointed out earlier, in the last 18 months we've created 83,000 jobs in the state of pennsylvania producing clean burning natural gas that saved the consumers of pennsylvania close to a quarter of a billion dollars in one year because that supply drove the

price of natural gas down to where it is today. now it can't stay there forever, but we have the same potential with oil. north dakota, the number two producer. unemployment rate, 3%. median wage in north dakota in oil production, $90,000 a year. median wage for everybody else, $42,000 a year. we talk about jobs, we talk about energy security and revenue to the government, we ought to think about energy, particularly as we make this decision because it will be altering for this nation for many years yet to come. >> mr. mcadam, do you want to add? you don't have to. if you want to add anything. >> no. the only thing i would add is that, excuse me, while we are out mining the sea bed for rare earth minerals, we are putting these cables across that provide the infrastructure so that these companies can -- can make the investments and run their businesses effectively. and i think we should do

everything we can to eliminate the risks associated with this vital network. >> well, i want to thank all of you. i think your testimony has been extraordinarily significant. very, very thought out and thorough and i think important to this process. so we're very, very grateful to all of you for taking time here today. we will, as i said, leave the record open for a week and we'll look forward to continuing the discussion with you over the course of the next ten months. appreciate it. we stand adjourned. thank you. coming up live this

afternoon here on cspan 3, defense secretary leon panetta will be joined by joint chiefs of staff chairman, general martin dempsey. two brief reporters of the pentagon. 3:30 p.m. here eastern. president obama travels to colorado today. he'll be touring areas of that state where massive wildfires have destroyed hundreds of homes and left at least one person dead. the president will speak at 3:30 eastern. we'll have that live for you on our website at cspan.org. july 7th and 8th book tv and american history tv explore the heritage and literary culture of missouri's capital. book tv will be on the campus of lincoln university. >> this is probably our most famous book. this is the one we like to show to visitors when they come into the archives here at paige library. and this is a book about harriet

tub man. it's called, "harriet, the moses this, this book was written in 1866. the special thing about this book is that harriet tubman made her mark on there and that's really the most famous autograph, if you want to call it that, of what we have here in paige library. and obviously she couldn't read or write, so she left her mark, the sign of the cross. >> watch for book tv and american history tv in jefferson city, missouri, july 7th and 8th on cspan 2 and 3. this is the conversation we need to have in this country that nobody is willing to have, okay? what role should the government play in housing finance? in "reckless endangerment" "new york times" columnist

gretchen detailed the subprime collapse and government subsidized homeownership. >> if you want to subsidize housing in this country and we want to talk about it and the populus agrees that it's something we should subsidize, then put it on the balance sheet and make it clear and make it evident and make everybody aware of how much it's costing. but when you deliver it through these third-party enterprises, fannie mae and freddie mac, when you deliver the subsidy through a public company with private shareholders and executives who can extract a lot of that subsidy for themselves, that is not a very good way of subsidizing homeownership. i think we've seen that -- the end of that movie in 2008. >> more with gretchen morganson sunday on cspan's q and a. earlier this week the middle east institute in washington hosted its third annual conference on turkey.

that day-long event focused on the domestic and regional challenges of that country, syria, post-arab spring and turkish relationships with the u.n. and the u.s. there was an incident of syria shooting down a turkish jet. senator john mccain, the current turkish ambassador to the u.s. and chief advisor to the turkish prime minister. they also heard from academic scholars, journalists, and former u.s. ambassadors. this took place at the u.s. national press club here in washington. good morning. if we could all please take our seats. well, thank you very much. very good morning to everybody here. i'm sure other people will be coming in throughout the day.

we have over 700 people who have registered for the conference today, and they'll be coming in and out. so we want to extend a very warm welcome to all of the first comers. this is the middle east institute's third annual turkish conference, and i'd like to say, i'm putting an emphasis on the third annual conference because actually we've been looking through some old files and have discovered that the middle east institute has been celebrating turkey for many years. in fact, we found an article that reported a banquet that we had hosted in honor of turkey's 30th anniversary as a republic back in 1953. but turkey today is playing a very crucial role in the world stage. it is -- and the way it is

dealing with asserttivelily some of the issues that confront us on the world stage has captured the world's attention, the u.s. and, indeed, throughout the world. whether it's turkey's diplomacy with iran, iraq, egypt, or turkey's generous assistance to -- humanitarian assistance to syrian refugees, or turkey's installation of a nato anti-missile battery, or the way it's dealing with the tensions along its border, turkey's taking a strong stance, including for the palestinians, which is close to our heart at the middle east institute. turkey is front and center on the world stage. so a question that we will be looking at today, how is turkey navigating in such a turbulent sea throughout the middle east? how is it dealing with the crisis in syria, with the

increased friction with the kurdish population? how will the country repair its relations with israel while sticking to its principles? this conference aims to answer these questions and others that come up today. to do so we have a series of extremely good speakers featuring senator john mccain, turkogluish ambassador nam namak tahn, the foreign min store senior advisor ibrahim kolum will be joining us later today by skype. unfortunately he and senior advisor salek -- amir salek who planned to be here were called back by the prime minister to deal with the current crisis of the downed aircraft but

fortunately we'll be joined by skype. of course these kinds of conferences don't just happen. they take weeks, months of very hard work and preparation. i'd like to thank a couple of people. first, ross wilson, ambassador ross wilson who is now chairman of the board of governors of georgetown university institute of turkish studies. without their partnership we wouldn't be able to expand this annual conference to this larger space which we have clearly needed to do. we have a number of speakers who have come from out of town. i'd like to welcome them. i'd specifically -- especially like to thank the middle east institute's own doctor ga newly toel who was our director of turkish studies. she's been working on this for months with her very able interns and the entire staff of

the middle east institute has pitched in, and i'd like to thank them publicly for all that they have done. [ applause ] >> and i'd like to point out to those of you who are joining us today, welcome you warmly, but also point out that we make a o conference free, without charge to the public. we want, it's consistent with the middle east institute to promote knowledge and understanding and to do so in the broadest way by making it public and by making it free to the officials and interested public. so enjoy it. i hope you get a lot out of it. if you get a lot out of it i hope you would consider becoming a member. i would like to point out that there is a table out front for joining. and with membership there are perks including subscription to the middle east journal, and now i'd like to hand the microphone

over to dr. goodwill toll. >> thank you. good morning. on behalf of the middle east center for turkish studies i would like to welcome you all to the third annual conference, and as you can see, our audience has grown considerably since the first annual conference in 2010 and it's the candid discussion of turkey's domestic and foreign policies and i would like to express our sincere appreciation to wendy chamberlain and our vice president kate seely and our director of development patrick barbieri and all my colleagues at the middle east institute. without their help this conference would not have been possible. i also would like to thank our

co-host ambassador ross wilson and the director of the institute of turkish studies for their invaluable support and special thanks go to my interns for their hard work in arranging for their event and i can see her here, and i would now like to introduce ambassador ross wilson. ambassador wilson is the director of the you're asia center where he leads the work on the region that extends from east central europe across the black and caspian seas and beyond to central asia. in december 2008 he completed nearly three decades in the u.s. foreign service including six years as american ambassador to turkey and azerbaijan. in washington, ambassador wilson served in various posts including the chief of staff for deputy secretary of state robert

zoellick and deputy secretary to the ambassador at large and special adviser to the secretary of state for the new independent states and deputy executive secretary of the state department and he also serves on the board of governors for the institute of turkish studies. ambassador wilson? >> good morning to all of you and welcome to the important discussion of turket and region around it and how turkey relates today to the middle east, what are some of the issues that americans should be thinking about and american policymakers should be thinking about as we develop our own policies in response to rapidly changing events and dynamics in that region. on behalf of the institute of turkish studies i would like to

welcome you to the itf, which is proud to co-host with ambassador chamberlain dr. tol. its has carried out and funded a variety of initiatives to promote turkish studies by american scholars and students. it has done so through grants to establish formal turkish studies programs at american colleges and universities through funding to support the development of library collections at universities and studies to back up the programs and financial aids for sabbatical and research in turkey to publish books and journal articles in the field and itf carries out campus visits and academic conferences and events such as this one and i would note that when its was established in 1982 the space was a rather empty space,

relatively empty space. today a variety of institutions including, i'm happy to say are very much engaged on turkey and on the region around turkey and i think that's very important. today's conference is timely. it's always timely to talk about the middle east, it seems and i think turkey as well. turkey has emerged over the last 20 years from the relative margins of europe and the to the world stage. the country's new role is born of its immense transformation, economically, socially and politically over the past two decades or more that have made the country in many respects, more successful and certainly more confident than at any time in 150 or 200 years.

it's also made basketball by turks and countrymen in the region and the turk irk duel middle eastern and the liabilities that come along with that. this conference is an unusual -- and i want to add my congratulations to dr. tol a and -- for their collaboration. thank you very much. >> and now it gives me enormous pleasure to welcome senator john mccain to nei's third annual conference of turkey. you know, this conference falls, i don't need to tell any of you at a time of great tension in the region. in general with syria, but specifically and as you know, senator mccain has been one of the leading voices in calling

for a more assertive u.s. action to help the syrian opposition, and i'm sure you also noted that in april senator mccain and senator joe lieberman went on a surprise trip to the turkish-syrian border. they met with leaders of the free syrian army and they visited syrian refugees. this is an enormously important mission for u.s. senators to do. he met with turkish leaders in ankara as well. commenting at that time senator mccain said this has not been easy or cost-free for turkey, but it's the right thing to do, and it demonstrates the compassion of turkey's great democracy. so i'm not going go through his bio. you all know it. his distinguished record as an

american hero during the vietnam war. his long service to the united states in the -- in the house and senate and his bid for presidency, but suffice it to say that senator john mccain has always been true to his values and that has reflected in his friendship for turkey. the middle east institute is honored to welcome the senator and to give -- so please join me in a warm welcome for senator mccain. >> thank you, wendy, for that kind introduction and you had to mention that i ran for president, i guess. huh? i often say after i lost i slept like a baby, sleep two hours, wake up and cry. sleep two hours, wake up and cry. thank you, wendy for your

leadership of the middle east institute, your many years of service in our diplomatic corps. i've had the great honor of many of the members of the diplomatic corps, wendy chamberlain is one of the most outstanding and remarkable people that i've had the opportunity of dealing with. let me also thank ambassador tan, the turkish government and our many guests from turkey for their generous support of this conference. i'm grateful that wendzy at the middle east institute would think to invite me this morning. most americans no longer care what we in congress have to say. last time i checked the approval rating of congress was at 11%. i've not met anyone lately in the 11%. we are down to blood relatives and paid staffers. i'm not so sure amo